Forced cooling

[Sasa]

Hightech - and expensive. but who knows, if it catches on I can certainly have a few laser cut and possibly even powder coated - although that may be a big problem here.

Most expensive part is going to be the fan itself.

Once the basic layout of the bracket is fixed, different fan could be adapted by simply changing the patter of the fixing holes.

 

[RCruiser]

Sasa I 'believe' that what you're writing about when mentioning 3d Printing, is the Shroud that holds the Fan, and directs all of the radiators face-heat into the fan, Correct?
I'm not sure that this is even necessary. With the KTM that I used this SPAL Fan on, the OEM setup didn't have a Shroud, and it worked great. The Fan comes with some Zip-tie type of straps that you slide through the radiator then through the mounting points on the fan; done. This might be all that is required in our case...
Roberto

 

[Sasa]

Roberto, yes I was referring to something that would hold the fan and direct some of the face-heat to the fan! I see your point but there are basically three downsides to this way of mounting the fan. First of all there is the inlet oil hose that prevents you from installing the fan "face on" the radiatior, or you have to place it with an akward angle. Second the radiator face is slimmer than the the fan itself, so you would basically waste some cooling capacity because part of the fan would simply sits outside the fins area! Third and last, I believe there is quite some difference in manufacturing quality between this radiator and the KTM one! I wouldn't trust hanging all the fan weight with zipties to the ratior fins and then ride rough terrains...

 

[RCruiser]

Got your points Sasa. Gotta disagree with the last one though; KTM uses SPAL as their OEM Fans, or at least they did in 2006 anyway. The fans aren't very heavy at all, it's just that the pictures of them make them appear hefty. Anyway I sure didn't have an issue with hanging mine like that...
As for the Ability to hang it, due to limited space, I get that point. Although... Dool's got something up his sleeve to show us after awhile with regards to a larger radiator. Because he reminded me of this idea, that someone from India originally thought of (but had implemented it poorly with 2 Himmi Radiators), it prodded me to go out to the local RE Showroom and take a look at what radiators go onto the different model of bikes. Maybe a Twin has a bigger unit? I'll try to make it there tomorrow...
Roberto

 

[Dool]

The Twin is too big IMO the cooler I am playing with from a GT250 Hyosung is too big also.

I wonder if they can be Cut Down to Size

 

[Dool]

A hacksaw will reduce its Size but that approach has got me into trouble before

 

[Dool]

What is the "Desired or Optimal" Temperature we are aiming for?
I previously had a gauge on the inlet and outlet of the engine oil ( replacing one of the copper washes on the Banjo Bolt ), it showed that the cooler was working?
I tried fitting the copper washer type thermistor to the Oil Temp sensor, spark Plug not very successfully, in that the data retrieved was either lost, miss interpreted or miss understood

But, How Hot is Too Hot ?

 

[Sasa]

What is the "Desired or Optimal" Temperature we are aiming for?
I previously had a gauge on the inlet and outlet of the engine oil ( replacing one of the copper washes on the Banjo Bolt ), it showed that the cooler was working?
I tried fitting the copper washer type thermistor to the Oil Temp sensor, spark Plug not very successfully, in that the data retrieved was either lost, miss interpreted or miss understood

But, How Hot is Too Hot ?

I'd say ECT above 120 starts to be worrysome... The problem is I cannot translate that to oil temp.

If I recall correctly @sam2019 had measured oil temperature in different conditions using a thermocouple in the oil drain bolt. If he can retrieve that data we can evaluate that together...

 

[sam2019]

fairly straight forward:
around 70C under normal driving conditions with 20C +- 5 outside.
90C on highways with long stretches at 80kmh and above
near 120C in city stop and go with ambient around 40C and up.

if my bike reaches 120C I look for a coffee shop and pause at least 20-30 minutes.
However theoretically because I use full synth oil I could go much higher but choose not to.

 

[Dool]

Cheaper oil and more stops in the coffee shop sounds good

 

[Sasa]

fairly straight forward:
around 70C under normal driving conditions with 20C +- 5 outside.
90C on highways with long stretches at 80kmh and above
near 120C in city stop and go with ambient around 40C and up.

if my bike reaches 120C I look for a coffee shop and pause at least 20-30 minutes.
However theoretically because I use full synth oil I could go much higher but choose not to.

The oil could go much higher as you mentioned, but that means the overall engine temp is going higher too, so you're right in stopping to a coffee shop!
Since the measurements you've taken are in the basement of the engine, where the bulk of the oil sits, it means most of the oil is already at 120C or higher (giving some slack to the thermocouple which is not "in the oil" but rather reading through the brass nut)! The circulating oil could be even at higher temperature!!!

So I'd say, the to be safe, the oil should be around 110 max, hence a cooling fan for the radiator could be a very welcome addition to the system, for those situations (stop and go in the city with high ambient temperature) in which neither the engine nor the radiator can be cooled by the air flow!

 

[Dool]

These Coffee shops are airconditioned and have internet I assume,.
Would not be so necessary on the way to Ladakh ?

I bought a Ford Transit once, it had been Flogged between 2 Hot Towns in the Pilbara ( where all the Iron Ore comes from ) moving "Air Freight".
I was suspicious when I noticed that an aftermarket Oil Temperature Gauge had been fitted to the Gear Box a "Sealed for Life" component, it contained a pathetic amount of Oil that may have been sufficient in the UK but had just boiled away in the heat and destroyed a few gearboxes.
I bought what I determined to be the Very best Oil that was both from the US and the Most expensive ( used less than 2 liters I think) when I sold it the whole thing was probably crushed and sent to China s it happened back then.

There is a Moral to this story, use the best if you can, and if you think its worth it or Sit in a Cafe and spend the Difference

 

[Dool]

This Oil cooler has promise. I need to make adaptors and get new hoses.
I'm hoping I can get 2 flat peices of Ali out off this piston crown otherwise it means Hacksawing another. It should be possible, I need 2 x 33mm circles for flanges.

 

[thony]

What is the "Desired or Optimal" Temperature we are aiming for?
I previously had a gauge on the inlet and outlet of the engine oil ( replacing one of the copper washes on the Banjo Bolt ), it showed that the cooler was working?
I tried fitting the copper washer type thermistor to the Oil Temp sensor, spark Plug not very successfully, in that the data retrieved was either lost, miss interpreted or miss understood

But, How Hot is Too Hot ?

I might not have a point here since you guys know your stuff (or I might have missed something along this thread too) but, have seen on my uncle's R80 a thermosthat that allows engine cooling through a small radiator similar to Hima's. This one is mounted on the boxer heads protection bars.

I guess this is like adding an extra radiator as some others have done. It will be different in that it will come into play when needed (automatically?). My two cents. Interesting thread.

 

[thony]

I might not have a point here since you guys know your stuff (or I might have missed something along this thread too) but, have seen on my uncle's R80 a thermosthat that allows engine cooling through a small radiator similar to Hima's. This one is mounted on the boxer heads protection bars.

The oil could go much higher as you mentioned, but that means the overall engine temp is going higher too, so you're right in stopping to a coffee shop!
Since the measurements you've taken are in the basement of the engine, where the bulk of the oil sits, it means most of the oil is already at 120C or higher (giving some slack to the thermocouple which is not "in the oil" but rather reading through the brass nut)! The circulating oil could be even at higher temperature!!!

So I'd say, the to be safe, the oil should be around 110 max, hence a cooling fan for the radiator could be a very welcome addition to the system, for those situations (stop and go in the city with high ambient temperature) in which neither the engine nor the radiator can be cooled by the air flow!

OK I read you @Sasa, fan is for when there is no conventional cooling options left.

 

[Dool]

just bought some hose and fittings to adapt this Oil Cooler to the Himalayan, so far including the Oil Cooler I have spent $250 Australian.
Hose is Stainless steel Braided over Teflon inner tube, fitting are reusable/Feild attachable type and blood will be lost fitting the Hose to the Ends, that ss braid is sharp when cut!
Oil Cooler has Flanged ends not too dissimilar to the Himalayan, I have made adaptor plates to take the 1/4 NPT fittings as in pic 3. at the other end is of course Banjo fittings which I shall cut and weld an adaptor to so I can fit the hose.

 

[Dool]

That part is done, next is to make the weld on adaptors from Nipples, the joiner nipples will be cut and drilled ( used to be able to buy ready made ones called Life Savers )to take the pipe on the Banjo Fittings then silver soldered to the line.

Obviously that involves destroying the OEM lines so it is a "no going back" sort of Mod.

In pic 3 you can see the 2 flanges side by side, the reason they share a hole ( that was the how I held it in the Lathe ) is that was all I could get from 1 piston and did not fancy cutting up another. A hard way to get a peice of Aluminum

 

[Dool]

Might need a special bolt here, perhaps a Button Head cap screw

 

[thony]

Nice job so far @Dool!

 

[Dool]

Just a bit more tonight, Fitted the Hose ends ( lost no Blood!) needed another O ring and as luck would have it the same size goes in the common Tap Spindles so I had some! If needed I could get some 90 Durometer O rings for added peace of mind.
Cut the Nipples and drilled them to 10mm for the oil pipes.