HT-b cam - improved version

[Dool]

I would wager that the Woodruff Key Failed because it felt a Load, exactly as it is designed to do.
It felt a Load because the Tension of the Nut holding the Tapers together was insufficient, no magic involved.

 

[RCruiser]

Since I installed my HT-b cam my starter is having difficulty turning over the engine when it ends up in the compression stroke without the OEM decompression cam. Anyone else having this issue? I replaced the battery thinking my original one was just weak enough not to spin the starter well but that didn’t make any difference. If I put it in third gear I can turn the rear wheel past the compression stroke and it will turn over and start.
I’m really enjoying the extra power with the cam although I’m concerned about not being able to start it all the time. Could it be I have a slightly weak starter? If I jump it with my battery pack the extra cranking amps will start it right up. Maybe I should have sprung for a lithium battery with higher cranking capacity instead of an AGM battery.

Hey Old Man (that doesn't sound right!?)
Your observations are spot on. I've quite using my b Cam for this reason, but I'm hopeful that a Newer Version of this Cam, with the inclusion of a Decompressor, will be available before too long. I too liked the extra torque that was produced so I'm anxiously waiting for this new rendition.
Bob

 

[Dool]

Whenever it was at the point the starter wouldn’t turn it over I would put the bike in third gear and on the center stand, then grab the wheel to turn the engine over enough to get past TDC. Next time it happens I’ll try your technique. Much better idea than having to dismount the bike. Thanks for the reply Dool!

For some reason, this morning I had to roll back to help the starter yesterday was okay.
I have found that holding a small amount of throttle and hitting the Button works most times, rolling back has reduced since adopting this technique.

What other Mods apart from Cam shaft?

 

[Old Man Himmie]

For some reason, this morning I had to roll back to help the starter yesterday was okay.
I have found that holding a small amount of throttle and hitting the Button works most times, rolling back has reduced since adopting this technique.

What other Mods apart from Cam shaft?

I have the regular FuelX as my only other engine related mod.

 

[Kiwiscoot]

I have over 3000kms on my cam now and never had to do anything special for it to start. I always pull the clutch in to minimise the mass the starter needs to turn on start-up. Mine is a carb model tho.

 

[Dool]

Good point, pulling the Clutch before starting, electronic controlled vehicles have taken away some of my smarts
Get so used to just touching a button, or a virtual button.

 

[sam2019]

Well, I do always pull the clutch and still have the occasional near-TDC effect where the piston gets stuck and I have to press the button a few more times before it rolls. Thats on a 411 with only the cam and measured 180 psi compression.

 

[Sasa]

Well, I do always pull the clutch and still have the occasional near-TDC effect where the piston gets stuck and I have to press the button a few more times before it rolls. Thats on a 411 with only the cam and measured 180 psi compression.

I'd say that it's just a poor quality battery, without sufficient CCA to crank the starter...

My lithium battery has never failed to spin my 477 with cam and 210psi...

 

[sam2019]

I'd say that it's just a poor quality battery, without sufficient CCA to crank the starter...

My lithium battery has never failed to spin my 477 with cam and 210psi...

you could be right, these indian lead acid batteries are shit, I have a collection of 5 or so bc permanent failure. @Dool you have a Lithium but you also have sometimes this starter problem, right?

 

[Dool]

My starting problems have only come up in less than a Year I dont remember it being an issue until overdid the Compression a few times and Overloaded the poor not so well made starter motor. But it just occurred to me that we have well sealed engines or weak starter motors

The Voltage shown on my Bikes is always 13 plus, it is amazing how much Punch these little lithiums have, I remember when I fitted the first and bigger of the 2 and it was noticeably faster than the near new Mottobat which was perfect just heavier!

 

[Kiwiscoot]

Mine tho is just a 411cc with 36 000kms on. Might be the Motobat battery that I have too, though I did go through the starter wiring when my Indian battery started playing up after 3 years. Cleaned all the wire terminals, starter posts and starter relay terminals and then sprayed them with silicon spray after reassembly to stop corrosion.

 

[sam2019]

The Voltage shown on my Bikes is always 13 plus, it is amazing how much Punch these little lithiums have, I remember when I fitted the first and bigger of the 2 and it was noticeably faster than the near new Mottobat which was perfect just heavier!

That was not the question. Do you sometimes have starter problems in spite of having a Lithium - YES or NO?

 

[Dool]

Yes, so the problem remains, decompressor built into the Cam was an option and perhaps will be again.
So far I can live with it.

 

[Old Man Himmie]

I’m not sure if this is purely a coincidence or if there’s something else going on. I recently bypassed my clutch switch and since then I haven’t had any issues with the starter not being able to turn the motor over. What I have noticed while looking at the wiring diagram is that when the clutch lever is pulled in the switch pulls directly from ground and when the lever isn’t pulled in the low signal (ground) comes from the ECU. I have the switch bypassed directly to the ground wire. Has anyone else bypassed their clutch switch to ground and isn’t having the frequent starter issue? I know it seems odd but I I was frequently having issues with the starter not turning over the motor and now it’s seemed to have disappeared. Could it be the starter solenoid isn’t fully engaging when having to go through the ECU?

 

[Dool]

Did you previously start with the Clutch in?

 

[Old Man Himmie]

No. I had already bypassed my switch before others had suggested pulling it in while starting. I’m not pulling it in now since I don’t want to change what I’ve been doing to see if the bypass truly made a difference.

 

[Dool]

Yes but if the switch is out of the way then surely it wouldn't matter if the clutch is pulled.
Main thing is you have it starting well, surprisingly my latest build at 240psi has not had any problem with starting and no Decompressor.

 

[Sasa]

I’m not sure if this is purely a coincidence or if there’s something else going on. I recently bypassed my clutch switch and since then I haven’t had any issues with the starter not being able to turn the motor over. What I have noticed while looking at the wiring diagram is that when the clutch lever is pulled in the switch pulls directly from ground and when the lever isn’t pulled in the low signal (ground) comes from the ECU. I have the switch bypassed directly to the ground wire. Has anyone else bypassed their clutch switch to ground and isn’t having the frequent starter issue? I know it seems odd but I I was frequently having issues with the starter not turning over the motor and now it’s seemed to have disappeared. Could it be the starter solenoid isn’t fully engaging when having to go through the ECU?

That is an interesting take and it matches my observations.
I recently took apart the clutch switch because it wasn't functioning properly and I found out it's just a 0,02 cent piece of rubbish. Metal lines inside the switch tend to oxidize while you looking at them and if there is corrosion on the switch, a good deal of power (due to added contact resistance) will be lost before reaching the starter motor.
I think bypassing the clutch switch altogether is the best way to go, I'm adding this to my "to do list" on the bike when it goes in full overhaul mode.
I might even bypass the side stand switch and get rid of the side stand altogether, my bike is now too tall anyway to use it (leans too much on the side) and I can save a kilogram along the way...

 

[Dool]

I like the idea of a switch that stops it being started in gear as I like a switch to stop me riding off with the side stand down.
But if the switches are crap then the Idea is also.
I bought a aluminum cover for the side stand switch( too much time on my hands!) went to fit it and it was not there! the switch that is

 

[Old Man Himmie]

For those interested in bypassing the clutch switch the two outer wires on the switch connector need to be jumpered. I just cut the connector off and soldered them together. The center wire goes to the ECU and the end should be protected from shorting out.