HT-b cam - improved version

sam2019

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16. November 2021, 22:43

Dool introduced the new HT-b version of our cam. There was some confusion (in the dyno-charts thread) because he failed to make it clear that this indeed is a different cam he is now testing (on his second "stock" Hima).

The result seems much better than the TEC and we now seem to have what we aimed at in the beginning, a real "performance" cam. As of Dool there will be a dyno with the 477 as well, some time in December it seems.

Have a look at the dyno chart (and remember, this is the result not just of the cam but of the combined mods outlined at the bottom of the chart - which component did which enhancement can at this point only be guessed):
 

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sam2019

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IMO and how I understand a cam to work the FuelX is mandatory if you have a stock bike as there can only be more fuel (= more power) if the ECU makes it available. The ECU alone would not do that, and here comes the oxygen cheat aka FuelX into play. The booster plug may work as well although only for one fixed amount and as the price of the BP is actually higher than that of the FuelX the latter seems preferable.

If you already own a PT you won't need also a FuelX as you can manipulate the fuel flow thru their software and mapping. I hope Dool will at one point make a "stock bike HT-b cam" map available - for the BS4 as the BS6 PT is another animal entirely.
 

sam2019

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17. November 2021, 5:32

I am curious, is the new HT-b these one of the three original cams sourced or another sourced from elsewhere?
No, it is not. Of the old ones only the stage 2 gave advantages (in the low rev and a tiny bit in the upper revs as outlined in the dyno). We only purchased 2 samples of the stage 1 and 3 for testing (and gave them away later).
They where not built to "our" specs because we do not know how to calibrate a cam. The manufacturer did 3 designs for us he figured would be useful. It is the same manufacturer for the HT-b.
The new one is called HT-b because the manufacturer denominates it with a "b" after the part number. We have not been able to get the specifics as to what is now different with regards to the other older versions. I guess he is kinda unhappy about us trashing the stage 1 and 3 as "not sufficiently enhanced for sales purposes" or maybe he just wants to keep a trade secret.
In any case it would not matter - what matter is what we measure at the dyno and that looks quite promising.

for us the 411 is an afterthought. We are more interested to serve our 477 customers. In this one case we used a 411 because Dool's 477 is not ready to ride, so the test was done on the new 411 which eventually also will be converted to 477.
In this light it is much more interesting how the cam behaves in a fully modded 477.
 

sam2019

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We always are totally open about how me do tests, that was the case in the past and is now. We only ever sold 2 types of cams although we tested at least 6 different ones.

In the case of cams Dool and I have identical products so a test he does will be equally valid for products I offer BUT that is not always the case.

E.g. the high performance head is a hand made mod and variations naturally occur. Even in case of the 477 because of slight differences in piston size resulting in variations in ring gaps and the use of various gaskets with varying thickness compression is not identical and so results can not be transferred 1:1.

Finally as mentioned before, the 411 crowd is not our main target. Everyone is invited to use our stuff but we will always give preference to users of the 477 big bore as that is the most effective and stable way to gain more torque and hp.
 

fazertreiber13

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On TEC's website you can read:

Some other makes of camshafts are now available for the 411 Scam and Himalayan, BUT we have noticed that these do not have all of the pressure oilways drilled to the bearings. This is done to save money and looks like they are relying on oil splash to lubricate the the camshaft. This is not a good idea when the cam runs directly in the head and any wear would require a new head assembly.

Who could be meant by this?
 

Dool

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The Cam is the Shaft, the Head material is the Bearing, It only works because Oil is forced into the Camshaft and the area around it to keep them separated. The Drillings he is referring to are to take the Oil from the right side where the Oil comes up through the Barrel and head and send it to the 2 other bearing surfaces. The Cam should have a Hole drilled almost all the way through with side passages to feed the bearings.

I think this is a Porky Pie , the cost of drilling the shaft is incomparable to the cost of the Head replacement etc,
But good enough to convince some Punters to Buy Local :ROFLMAO:
 

sam2019

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Who could be meant by this?
No idea, I only have a OEM cam to compare and cant see a difference there but Dool has (or had) a TEC - maybe he can help?
I sounds a bit fishy in particular as they don't specify which "other makers" - if they talk about Hitch they may as well talk about RE itself bc the Hitch cam is a slightly modified stock cam only. There may be contenders we don't know about.
It is very unlikely someone would produce a cam and leave out important oil channels "to save money".
I can however tell you from my own experience (I used to have a TEC specimen) that THEY have lousy finish - and I have photos to prove it - and I believe Dool found something similar on his TEC. I would have to dig deep though - that stuff was discussed over a year ago.
 

Dool

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My take is this,

They are taking a swipe!, to avoid the obvious.
Their Claim of 20% is dependent on other things like a full exhaust? without baffle ! ( like who can ride with it, what does this full exhaust look like, did we get a link?) no of course not, just the Cam, no extra fuel no timing adjustments may well get you an improvement on a Test Bench with a special exhaust but will be of little use when that engine is in a Motorcycle
And the claim is in BHP not our RWHP with its obvious Extras like Wheels tyres Gearboxes and a chain and sprocket.

For those that can count, 29.4 BHP pails in significance to 30.5 real Horsepower:cool:

I would spread rumors if I was concerned and didn't have any good Dyno Charts to show:LOL:
 

Dool

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Apologies, my English is a bit of a much a mix, ( I understand most of it sometimes )

So I think the bit about Cams without Drillings is a Scare Campaign. Perhaps like a Pride thing.
Coming from a country that once ruled the only other country that has produced a "second Cam" ( OEM are made in India ) but not really taking aim at the British competition that Re-Ground their first offering ( again from India!) and throwing doubt on "Some Other " Cam producers that save money by not drilling holes , if that happened ( apart from there being pictures of the damage ! ) the Bike would self-destruct in about 10 mins or less.

H-T Cams are drilled, Ive run every Cam available on the Market except HMC performance offering ( that I know of ) the least impressive and the least well-presented both came from the UK.

:)
 
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Dool

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My interest in Cams is confined to my Himalayans as ( My Car has a Turbo, 3 inch dump pipe and is "Chipped" as we say here ) , the Himalayans on the other hand need anything they can get for an Edge.
So I notice this post while I was scratching for dirt, from someone who fitted the new Stage 2 Cam ( From "some other" Company ) and guess what?
He had running issues and Noise that was rectified by removing the Cam!
I shant give any credits I shall just copy and paste, no offence intended.

"Hey new to the thread here. Just installed the stage 2 and fuel x tuner. Now it runs like ass threw 2 engine codes and ticks... valves have been readjusted. Connections double checked. Anyone else have any problems like this?

UPDATE: I put the stock cam in and removed the fuelx tuner. bike immediately started right up and ran perfect no ticking. I then put the fuelx back in and runs great!!
Seems like there is an issue with my cam?? When the stage 2 cam from hitchcocks is in the bike the idle fluctuates dramatically from barely running to around 2k when its at its best. Also there is a metallic ticking in the engine even after checking to make sure the proper valve clearance. I am just glad I am not crazy and that the himi is ok .
"

Some Other companies will sell you a Cam and let you find out the hard way that you need more than a Hot Cam to make a Hot Rod.
 

sam2019

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what, you still feed the trolls at the REowners forum? :rolleyes:
 

Dool

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Point of all this is , that Cams Make Noise, your used to the noise of your Cam (at least you think you can remember it ) and then you install the New Cam and your ears are turned up full and you can hear the Cam even more.
The Noise is acceptable if the Power gains meet your expectations, performance machines are not noted for their Quietness.
But if somehow the Power does not show or impress then it is a noisy Cam.
360 deg in a circle as we all know and the stock Cam does a certain amount of work in one rotation, ask it to do More work in the Same Time! because it only has 360 deg.
It has to do it Faster and this can be Noisy :) but if you want it quiet then convert to Electric:ROFLMAO:

Fueling has to be addressed or results will not please.

Just my opinion, I am still learning.
 

sam2019

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If one reads thru various Hima related forums the one issue coming up quite frequently is the cutting out of the engine. Some do it when cold, others when hot and then again some in all situations. I had one of those and while the BS4 allows for various methods to fight this the BS6 is extremely limited in what can be done with the bike "as is".

However almost by accident we stumbled over a solution (or maybe even THE solution) for the Euro5/BS6. Its not super cheap but you gain a few (5 or so) HP in the process as well:

Install the HT-b cam along with FuelX Pro. Then set FueX Pro to stage 10 (the highest stage) - and voila - no more cut outs!


 

Old Man Himmie

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Since I installed my HT-b cam my starter is having difficulty turning over the engine when it ends up in the compression stroke without the OEM decompression cam. Anyone else having this issue? I replaced the battery thinking my original one was just weak enough not to spin the starter well but that didn’t make any difference. If I put it in third gear I can turn the rear wheel past the compression stroke and it will turn over and start.
I’m really enjoying the extra power with the cam although I’m concerned about not being able to start it all the time. Could it be I have a slightly weak starter? If I jump it with my battery pack the extra cranking amps will start it right up. Maybe I should have sprung for a lithium battery with higher cranking capacity instead of an AGM battery.
 

Dool

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What is your start technique, I was having this trouble also but lately I am not.
I used to roll back in 5th.
 

Old Man Himmie

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Whenever it was at the point the starter wouldn’t turn it over I would put the bike in third gear and on the center stand, then grab the wheel to turn the engine over enough to get past TDC. Next time it happens I’ll try your technique. Much better idea than having to dismount the bike. Thanks for the reply Dool!
 

sam2019

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Since I installed my HT-b cam my starter is having difficulty turning over the engine when it ends up in the compression stroke without the OEM decompression cam.
Yes, it happens to me too. In about 20% of starting I need to press the button more than once and in rare occasions repeatedly. I am too lazy to do the "roll back in 5th" and have been able to get the engine running just by repeated attempts. As I am using the ht-b since its inception this translates to many hundreds of starting attempts. It always works in the end.
Having the decomp is a mixed blessing as well though. If it fails (and it does) then no starting at all because no compression.
There is one issue with a tiny part of the starter engine, sometimes (rarely) the "woodruf key" breaks, so far ONLY in bikes that have both, the 477 and the ht-b cam. I did a small piece on it in the old forum where I wrote:

another of these "Woodruff Keys" broke - cheap to replace but it makes horrible noises while in the process of breaking. Could be that the added load from the 477 is "helping" with this. In India its a minor nuiscance (cost me 10 bucks to repair including the part) but in the west for someone without mechanical skills it will be a 150-200 bucks job I guess. I may do a how-to video because its not that complicated (comparable to a clutch plate change).
 

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Old Man Himmie

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Thanks Sam2019. It’s good to know I’m not experiencing anything different than others are. Good to know about the woodruff key. May not be a bad idea to throw one in my toolbox.
 

sam2019

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Thanks Sam2019. It’s good to know I’m not experiencing anything different than others are. Good to know about the woodruff key. May not be a bad idea to throw one in my toolbox.
I actually carry one in my money belt. I dont want to end up somewhere without starter and then having to wait WEEKS for that tiny part if its out of stock. It happened once in a remote area in the mountains but the local repair guy was able to machine one from a piece of steel. It did last til today :)
 
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