BS6 - Cutting off ...
- Thread starter sam2019
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I think the much misused term "conspiracy theory" covers this nicelyTamper Proof ECU, it didnt like being jumped on with the PT piggy back so it went into self destruct Mode, explains it all to me
Which map are you planning to use on the PT?
No idea, I run the last map we did together now but am waiting for the V.4 PT, then I will investigate what the changes are if any and if there are software changes as well. the PT is ordered, but I dont know how long delivery will be, hope for inside this year...
Let me know how that map performs with the 477 on the current PT! The map I made should mimick what PowerCommander does for the 462 that HMC sells, so it should be a good place to start...No idea, I run the last map we did together now but am waiting for the V.4 PT, then I will investigate what the changes are if any and if there are software changes as well. the PT is ordered, but I dont know how long delivery will be, hope for inside this year...
When we attached the PT4 to the 477 the cutting out became unbearable. I was impossible to close the throttle without the engine shutting off right away. That was absolutely unnerving and Racedynamics had not been able to give a time frame for an instruction manual or video for the new software so I could not change the mapping. Because I need at least one bike that runs I decided to downgrade to 411 again (luckily we have stock of 411 cylinder sets) but I also installed the HT-b cam and the fuelx pro I had laying around since it was taken off this same bike (to eliminate possible cut-off culprits).
When we fired up the 411 it ran nicely. It would still cut off when we did the "litmus test" (hold 10 seconds at 3000rpm, then close the throttle abruptly). However when we pushed FuelX to it upper limit (10 out of 10) the bike would NOT stall. A follow up ride of 80km with ample cut-off trials lead to zero cut offs. It would still behave a bit strange in that rpm would fall to 1000 or even 900 but it never actually stalled.
That may be an indicator that this stalling issue is a fuel issue bc that's all FuelX does: add fuel. I wonder how it does this, the same %% over the entire rpm range or is there some logic circuit in the box that does some calculations?
That may also be the reason why the old PT3 never was able to run the 477 with cam without stalling, it may just not have the capacity to add sufficient fuel for that. Whenever the new "real" ECU becomes available we will find out.
When we fired up the 411 it ran nicely. It would still cut off when we did the "litmus test" (hold 10 seconds at 3000rpm, then close the throttle abruptly). However when we pushed FuelX to it upper limit (10 out of 10) the bike would NOT stall. A follow up ride of 80km with ample cut-off trials lead to zero cut offs. It would still behave a bit strange in that rpm would fall to 1000 or even 900 but it never actually stalled.
That may be an indicator that this stalling issue is a fuel issue bc that's all FuelX does: add fuel. I wonder how it does this, the same %% over the entire rpm range or is there some logic circuit in the box that does some calculations?
That may also be the reason why the old PT3 never was able to run the 477 with cam without stalling, it may just not have the capacity to add sufficient fuel for that. Whenever the new "real" ECU becomes available we will find out.
Fuelx connects to the O2 Sensor Circuit. ECU is expecting feedback, fuelx intercepts the signal, that we can be sure of.
The ECU controls the fueling based on the Parameters of its Map, its getting told by the O2 Sensor Circuit ( remember it doesent know Fuelx is there ) that its on the Lean side ( on Pro that is no3 upwards ) so ECU adds more fuel but how much? well more depending on the no set on fuelx that results in "I am running Lean" being screamed at it, the ECU doesn't ask how much and isn't asking just as FuelX can't tell it.
Hence the O2 cheat has its limitations but is easier to use than a piggy back with no instructions.
I would have thought it was obviously lean if it idles high, on simple carbies idle is adjusted lean until just too high then richened to drop it to a low idle thats slightly rich to account for the next thing which is the throttle being opened!
The ECU controls the fueling based on the Parameters of its Map, its getting told by the O2 Sensor Circuit ( remember it doesent know Fuelx is there ) that its on the Lean side ( on Pro that is no3 upwards ) so ECU adds more fuel but how much? well more depending on the no set on fuelx that results in "I am running Lean" being screamed at it, the ECU doesn't ask how much and isn't asking just as FuelX can't tell it.
Hence the O2 cheat has its limitations but is easier to use than a piggy back with no instructions.
I would have thought it was obviously lean if it idles high, on simple carbies idle is adjusted lean until just too high then richened to drop it to a low idle thats slightly rich to account for the next thing which is the throttle being opened!
So there is one value for the "10" setting FuelX transmits to the ECU for the entire RPM range and the ECU does the calculating - right?
Is that a particular voltage? or resistance? if its one value we might be able to emulate that with a simple and cheap electronic part, a resistor, or a very simple circuit.
Not important for the 477 but could make adding a HT-b cam to the BS6 a lot cheaper.
The O2 sensor circuit can only say lean, ok and rich and the ECU can only ad what it has been programmed to allow, thats its limitation.
I was able to run a 411 with Cam quite well with fuelX because the cam only required that much more.
I was able to run a 411 with Cam quite well with fuelX because the cam only required that much more.
yes, I understand that - however assuming the O2 sensor circuit does not speak English - how does it say that? In our case we only need the value for LEAN to emulate the entire big and expensive FuelX (Pro).
Not that easy it has to lay low and not be seen by the ECU.
A voltage I thought, pre Bs6.
It isnt easy and the Fuelx lite did the job so I didnt try cracking it.
It obviously can not change the Values enough because thats the limitations of the ECU
A voltage I thought, pre Bs6.
It isnt easy and the Fuelx lite did the job so I didnt try cracking it.
It obviously can not change the Values enough because thats the limitations of the ECU
Just to complete this thread: we have been reducing the 477 BS6 to 411 plus the HT-b cam and the FuelX pro - at position 10 (max rich setting).
In that configuration the bike never cuts out.
Obviously that can not be the last word but before Racedynamics come out with an instruction manual for the V.4 of R-tune there isnt much I can do. I need at least one bike I can actually use and the BS4 is still waiting for the new frame (and the BS3 is waiting for a gazillion parts that are on order since 2 month).
Depending on how business picks up in 2023 I may be able to purchase a second used BS6 which will then be testbed for the Powertronic4 with 477cc. I will start a new thread if and when this happens.
In that configuration the bike never cuts out.
Obviously that can not be the last word but before Racedynamics come out with an instruction manual for the V.4 of R-tune there isnt much I can do. I need at least one bike I can actually use and the BS4 is still waiting for the new frame (and the BS3 is waiting for a gazillion parts that are on order since 2 month).
Depending on how business picks up in 2023 I may be able to purchase a second used BS6 which will then be testbed for the Powertronic4 with 477cc. I will start a new thread if and when this happens.
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