The "Red ECU" thread

sam2019

sam2019

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Everything regarding the red ecu for the bs4 model

This thread was easy the most read and longest on the old forum. Much of the early days discussions are moot now and SaSa thankfully has volunteered to do the "consolidation" of relevant results from these discussions.

If you want to experience the full spectrum of changes that are possible download the software here and install it on your laptop. It work with Windows versions XP, Vista, 8 and 10 (and probably 11 but havn’t tested it yet).

Now over to Sasa!
 
He is Busy working on a new Map, so let me give an Update.

Currently I am testing a Kam version of map 5 Kam is short for Kamikaze, this Version 6, on the Hwy I get AFR of 13.5 to 1 and around town at 60 kph it is near stoich in the mid 14s to 1.

@Sasa has got this Red Box sorted out, Thanks to him we now truly have the best option for pre Bs6 at least.

My 443 running this map is a Beast, pulls strongly to 7000rpm which is a good time to change gear also, makes for an exhilarating Ride and keeps you in front of the Traffic:ninja:
 
Since the passing of our old format, we have lost the posts here that would have shown how much has gone into this project.
And I think the History should be preserved ( not all history but the bits I like ) so I am going to set out some of the milestones/blunders for the record.

I blame @RCruiser for introducing me to this Reprogrammable ECU, I think it was him who first alerted me to its existence.
Having a Himalayan and not being able to get itchyfootwear ( no endorsements! ) but being one of those people ( a consumer?) who must have everything that is possibly available ( obviously not all is! ) for this new interest specially the Performance stuff, but I dont regret buying the first one ( I am naturally immune to that ) I kinda felt bad when the first one was sold, it went to a Guy in the US that tracked me down from the ADV forum. Some people know how to read between the lines!
After he tried it he pointed out what became more obvious over time, I offered him a refund and he declined, he also provided the first map that took into account the basic differences between a Honda 150 and the Himalayan that just so happened to have the same plug on its ECU, much appreciated he went by the name Millman?.

Being a Visionary and thinking I could see shit brewing on the Horizon I sent a unit and the map to a Bloke here in Australia who had helped me with the Powertronic maps, he was able to make some sense of it all and he made and I tested maps until it was nearly tamed. He suffered a terrible loss and cannot be with us.

It went quiet then, also.

More recently, @Sasa who had also bought into the "Dream" started asking questions, I had recently decided to use the Dynojet supplied for the 462 from HMC for my new project the 443 Overbore but was intrigued by the ever challenging questions and eventually realized that he actually knew what he was talking about and I did not :)

Now I think we are on the same page! he has asked the questions and crunched the data and my Himalayans run his maps and are producing the most perfect AFR readings.

Next year is the Year of the Red Box and I will give away a free FlashX with every unit I sell:ROFLMAO:

The FlashX is about as easy to fit as the RB so the installation will take about 15mins total under the seat if you are tidy and use all the cable ties🙃

As the new year approaches we could perhaps reflect and ( if you own a pre Bs6 ! ) remember how Lucky you are!
 
@Dool thanks for start filling this thread again!

Your recap is nice and a good trip down memory lane!

When @sam2019 decided to switch forum software I had promised to start filling in this thread with all the bits and pieces of information I collected throughout the help of @Dool, @blacklisted before me and countless hours of googling, studying and spreadsheet analysis.

I have so far eluded that promise.

The problem is that I relized the amount of data is consistent and writing posts could become dispersive due to question and replies from other users, all of which are very welcome but can make the research of information very tedious!

Now I understand I need to write the much needed user manual the Red Box has always been missing. The genesis of this idea is very recent and it will take a while, but I aim to provide a document that would explain the software in detail, as well as explaining how to do procedures like adjusting cold idle, set target AFR when cruising and develop a map, at least the way I did it.
The PDF will be free for every one that would request it from me and, obviously, for those who have contributed with their work and advices.

You have to be patient, but it will come.
 
Dool said:
He is Busy working on a new Map, so let me give an Update.

Currently I am testing a Kam version of map 5 Kam is short for Kamikaze, this Version 6, on the Hwy I get AFR of 13.5 to 1 and around town at 60 kph it is near stoich in the mid 14s to 1.

@Sasa has got this Red Box sorted out, Thanks to him we now truly have the best option for pre Bs6 at least.

My 443 running this map is a Beast, pulls strongly to 7000rpm which is a good time to change gear also, makes for an exhilarating Ride and keeps you in front of the Traffic:ninja:
Click to expand...

As @Dool pointed out (BTW your version it's actually V7 non V6!), there has been a lot of "behind the scene" work on the map, with very special focus on the calibration of the lambda/O2 sensor. The calibration of that sensor is crucial to have set a AFR target for the crusing phases. I have to thank @Dool for the countless test he has performed on many iterations of the map! Thanks to the data he collected we are now very very close to a perfect calibration of the O2 sensor.

There are also other tweaks that have been applied, as well as a finer optimization of fueling and timing, albeit in that department changes are minor.

The map is 95% ready and I count on finalizing it this week end, HOWEVER I won't be sending the latest map to @sam2019 for the usual public upload. Instead the map will be available to whoever will ask for it, provided he is an active member of the forum.
The reason behind this change of policy is that a lot of work has gone into the various map development and, although I'm more than willing to share the result of this work with the forum community, I don't like the fact that anyone passing by can subscribe and download the file from the forum, without ever providing a feedback or contributing to the community.
For casual people there will still be the V5 available that, although not as refined as the V6, will perform well enough for lurkers and non returning users...

For active members it will be sufficient to send me a message or a mail and I'll send you a copy of the file, provided that you have a 477 and a RB, no curious cats allowed.
 
OK then, send me a copy pls. My BS4 should get its new frame some time in the next week or so - and V7 would be nice to have then.
 
Ok guys,

just to clarify: V7 is for the "kamikaze" version of the map which I usually provide to @Dool for dyno purposes. In that file all maps are intended to be "performance" maps, with slight variations to differentiate tests and gather more possible data! What we find to be the best set of parameters usually trickles down into the "official" map, specifically into map2 which is the performance map of that file. The latest available (still in my pc) official map is V6, V7 has nothing to do with it!

Unfortunately due to celebrations, wine and family gatherings, V6 (official) isn't ready yet. It should be shortly! I'll notify you here as soon as I'm ready!
 
I have heard that Italians like Wine :)
Tis the Season to be Merry after all.
 
I rolled through a set of lights in 2nd gear as I hit the Hwy, the Max speed of 110kph was reached quickly.
I took it to 7500rpm in 2nd , 3rd and 4th gear and hit the limit with a gear up my sleeve.
Stock Chain and Sprockets! Not much else stock ! :cool:
This what a 443cc Himalayan can do so it only gets better with bigger pistons and Map changes :ninja:.

What does Kamikaze have to do with The Himalayas :unsure:
 
Peter, where is the Rev Limiter set at on our bikes?
You said that you'd taken it up to 7500rpm, and I can relate to how quickly we can now reach that point, as I've been hitting the Rev limits from time to time. Seems like that too is set a little low because it feels as if there is more to give us in the engine?

On a side note, I've been getting the best Fuel mileage Ever with V.5 T.3 In fact 'I think' that I may be running a bit lean now with the 34mm Throttle Body as I've been getting some deceleration popping. Not a Bad amount, but it's there, Plus I feel that I'm lacking a little power as I've said before. It'll be cool to see what the dyno will reveal one of these days...
Bob
 
ATTENTION PLEASE, V6 is ready!!!

Many of you are receiving it in their inbox as I write!

PLEASE remember to provide feedback and to properly upload the whole map (use send all) on the red box using the procedure in this post.

@RCruiser you should already have your special version in the mail, @sam2019 and @thony you're going to get yours in few minutes.

Your copy is NOT for redistribution, anyone who wants the map can ask directly to me.

A lot of my and @Dool's time (and money in Peter's case) has been poured into this map, please respect our work and don't redistribute it withou asking.
 
Hey Bob, i am not sure how your starting is going, Ive given up on the @no throttle@
 
Thanx a bunch and I copied your disclaimer to the appropriate maps download thread.
 
Guys, let's raise our goblets to Sasa; a Toast is fitting! The guy has been such a Great asset to the Himalayan Community (whether they know it now or not!).

I've uploaded V.6 SE (special edition) and man O man, am I the happy camper!! I do not understand Why my motor seems so Smooth & Quiet with a MAP change alone, ...well I get it in part, but it still blows me away how relaxed and happy it is. Tuned? I guess. It has 'almost' started for me w/o choke or throttle too, but I've had to add a bit of throttle and hold it for some seconds, though it has been 5c/41f which is considered pretty cold here. Sasa says that he's been working on that Cold Start too so we'll probably have that addressed pretty soon.

Anyway the Power Band has changed to a Lower point, like just above 3500rpm, almost like the 'b' Cam functioned. Nice power and I'm not even running the b Cam at the moment.

I'm Really Really pleased...
Bob
 
@RCruiser thanks for your enthusiasm and your kind words, but you have to give credit where credit is due, and in this regards @Dool shares at least 50% of the credit if not more. I could have never figured out the inner workings of most parameters without him helping with testing and observations.

Anyhow here is the secret recipe of the file: this new iteration includes a pretty precise characterization of the O2 sensor.

As incredible as it may sound we are actually using a narrow band sensor as you would use a wideband sensor.

What this implies? it implies that I can set a target AFR for the time I'm cruising (constant throttle / constant RPM) and the red box will adjust fuel to keep that target, in a proper closed loop mode (wave your hand to the supplier of the red box who said closed loop wasn't possible!). This kind of control was also in the V5 but there were two fundamental flaws:
- the first was that the calibration was upside down, meaning that when the AFR was enriching the red box would think it was getting leaner
- the second was that the calibration was very coarse anyway.

Thanks to @Dool and his incredible amount of testing with the AFR gauge, I've been able to figure out the proper calibration, or at least a better calibration, for the o2 sensor. We didn't advertise this but we've passed almost two months testing different o2 sensor calibrations and AFR targets, acquiring precious data. I would produce the new map file, Peter would test all four maps and then deliver the data to me to create next iteration, and so on.

Now, being a narrow sensor it will never be as precise as a wideband, so if I set a 14 AFR target, there will be oscillations around that target point. However, we are now at a point where the oscillation are rarely more than 0.5 AFR points and most of the time within +/-0.2 AFR points from the target. The target can be se toward fuel economy or throttle response, the possibilities are many!

In V6 map3 has an AFR target leaned more toward fuel economy, while map2 is leaned more toward power and throttle response. Map1 is somewhere in between.

What you should experience (an it seems like it's working) it's a more stable feeling of power, no hesitations, quick and consistent throttle response and a smoother overall power delivery!

So far I've been exploring (together and thanks to @Dool's help) most of the Red Box tables and options. There is only one area left for me to explore and that one could lead, I hope, to a smoother idle and faster cold start and other benefits. So far these setting have always worked so I never paid too much attention to them, whether or not they are optimized we shall see! I'll keep you posted!
 
RCruiser said:
Well then, Here's to Peter too! Thank you guys for this hard fought for MAP! You guys ROCK!!!!!
Click to expand...
Hold your horses Bob, we didn't implement MAP, and we probably never will (well never say never...).
So far all attempts have been unsuccessful and I've given up for the time being.

Anyhow rest assured that a properly tuned map file that implements Alpha-n (the strategy we use, where you only rely on TPS positions and RPMs) works just fine.

What you feel now is the Red box seamingly transition in&out between closed loop and open loop mode, no MAP (yet, you never know...)
 
I just got an order in from Motos Carronas and Pablo plans to use it for a 500cc with a lightweight crankshaft. He is also an expert in all things moto so maybe we get some feedback from him in a while (a rather long while I suppose). He seems to hate English so I will bug him with the help of google translate 😇
 
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