J-Engine 410cc Thread

[sam2019]

I only have this one test bed Hunter 410 and that bike has no cold idle problem. However I have read elsewhere that ppl with the stock J-engine bikes (350s) have it - and that FuelX Pro+ solves it. I do not understand how that is possible (FuelX works on the o2 sensor circuit) but alas - its has been reported. You could even get away with the standard FuelX (no pro or plus).

 

[Dool]

who will be the first to develop a Carby conversion I wonder?

 

[KOSTAS]

Hi there



I found some time to present my experience regarding the 410 cc kit for my RE Classic 350 reborn.

• Shipping & handling. There was no problem. Helpful communication from the seller. Everything was in order with the national post. They took their time (about a month) and customs fee was about 100 Euros. My county is Greece.
• Item condition. The cylinder, piston and rings looked good. There was a minor imperfection at the upper part of the cylinder (I suppose due to the pressing of the new sleeve) that caused no problem at all. Although I did not measure the tolerances, they looked to be on the large side, compared with Japanese bikes. I suppose that Indian engineers are very experienced with RE motors, so no comment. Base and Head gaskets were included so we talk about plug and play.
• Installation was straight forward. The only problem that presented was due to my mistake. I reused the valve cover gasket (that has been reassembled for more than 3-4 times) and I noticed serous oil leak. I tried unsuccessfully to solve this problem using hi temp silicone gasket. The final solution was to replace the gasket with a new one (waiting some time to get it). Problem solved, lesson learned. By a new valve cover gasket before the procedure.
• The bike is a RE Classic 350 reborn, model 2022 with 9000 km on the odometer and many modifications.
• Air intake à DNA filter and cover
• Exhaust à Red rooster with the standard cat
• Performance camshaft
• Fuel –X and Powertronic ECU (Set for most of the time at the 1st provided map).
• 2 teeth larger rear gear.
• 
  
• ENGINE MANAGEMENT.
• My first attempt was to try the Himalayan/Scramb Euro 5 Ecu. I made the consumption that a factory RE Ecu specifically made for a 410cc engine and having no known speed limiter would be the ideal solution. I found a used euro v Himalayan throttle body/ecu on ebay that looked exactly the same with my factory one. The swap was very simple (like the threads with the Hunter ecu). The engine started but the idling was far from perfect. The ecu seems not to recognize the neutral indicator switch so the green neutral light was off in neutral gear, I had an engine check light on and I had to pull the clutch to be able to start the engine. I used the bike like this for a couple of days but I had a permanent engine check light on and an erratic engine operation. I did not try the idling calibration procedure because I thought that I had no chance for Ecu adaptation with the engine light on. So I removed the euro v Himalayan throttle body. Maybe I will try it again in the future if I can find a solution to solve the neutral indicator switch problem.
• My second attempt was the stock ecu without the powertronic ecu. The bike starts and idles well but I had a lot of pooping. I believe that with the other mods I have the standard ecu reaches its limitations.
• My third attempt was the stock ecu with the powertronic ecu. The bike runs better with minor pooping on deceleration and low gears. I did not noticed marked difference with 1 or 2 maps in standard operation.

RUNING AND IMPRESSIONS. The bike is more torque than standard. I regained a significant part of the low end performance loss due to the performance camshaft. Bigger engine displacement was for me the ideal solution to overcome the performance camshaft disadvantages. The engine works nice without problems. Vibrations are a little bit more noticeable but they are not by any means unpleasant. The overall performance (in combination with all the other mods) is markedly increased (and the fuel consumption as well) and the bike is more pleasant to ride. SO I AM SATISFIED WITH THE RESULT. There is no replacement for DISPLACEMENT!

FUTURE INVESTIGATION. I would like to remove the speed limiter. I know the threads about the Hunter throttle body/ecu and I will leave it as the final solution as I have spent already a lot of money on this bike, which I like a lot! Does anybody have any suggestions about the euro V Himalayan ECU and the neutral indicator switch? I still have the feeling that the factory euro V Himalayan ECU could be the ideal solution.

I know that this was a long post but I tried to present most of my experience.

FINAL THOUGHT. The Indian big bore kit 410cc for the j series RE engines proved for me (at least till now) a pleasant experience. Keep going!

 

[Moos1964]

Hi there
I found some time to present my experience regarding the 410 cc kit for my RE Classic 350 reborn.

• FINAL THOUGHT. The Indian big bore kit 410cc for the j series RE engines proved for me (at least till now) a pleasant experience. Keep going!

The throttle body from hunter gives the same problems. This has to do with the fact that the hunter has a gear indication The main dealer in Toronto is busy having the ECU rewritten. Maybe contact him for more details.

 

[sam2019]

The throttle body from hunter gives the same problems. This has to do with the fact that the hunter has a gear indication The main dealer in Toronto is busy having the ECU rewritten. Maybe contact him for more details.

Please no full quotes. Just quote the part you reference.
About the gear indicator: The Meteor has ones as well but I do not see the connection to the TB?!
About the ECU: while there is a (very expensive) set of hard and software to manipulate OEM ECUs that are hardened (like the newer ones from RE) these changes would have to be done to any individual one - and if done by said dealer, would be charged in the region of 500+ US$ for that (based on what an Italian company charges for similar service). Once done it can not be adapted to further upgrades like additional camshaft, a better air filter or air flow system, cat free exhaust etc. etc. so for each adaption the 500 $ are again to be paid, and that assumes that mappings for those very specific upgrades are available.
It seems more financially feasible to just get a powertronic and fuelx pro instead.

 

[Moos1964]

Sorry didn't know about no full quote.
The problem will most often occur with the Classic. Didn't read about it in the Meteor. I didn't go into it too deeply during the conversation with the Toronto dealer. He didn't mention an actual price. I have no idea how it is done, so I can't comment on that.
The feulx and powertronic serve no top speed. And that's what bothers most people anyway. Otherwise the conversion to more cc and a different camshaft is pointless. The bike rides well enough for me at the moment, just missing some top speed and power above 110kmh in headwind. Which I actually only drive on the highway in exceptional cases.
Personally, I still have doubts between the 410cc set or the camshaft in combination with the TB of the Hunter.
But I enjoy what I read here and am happy with the information you provided so that I have a choice.
Greetz Timo

 

[sam2019]

OK, so you want more top end, then you have to change the sprocket(s). Otherwise any tuning just gets you to the red line faster but does not change the top speed associated with that red line.
Here in India top speed is meaningless above 100kmh. But being able to pass a truck quickly in the mountains is not. All eyes are on add. torque and very few ppl. are interested in higher (basically suicidal) top speed.
And yes, more displacement is the royal way to more torque, although other "tricks" can achieve that also.

 

[illgenj]

The kit arrived in about 13 days in the US, it was super well packed and all of the materials look great. The installation was smooth until I dropped a cam carrier bolt into the engine and it seems to have disappeared! I put a rag into the cavity but apparently wasn't good enough. I haven't been able to retrieve it with a magnet or see it with the case off. Might end up having to redo the whole thing and dig out that bolt if it fell into that tiny hole. Open to ideas if anyone's been in a similar situation.

 

[sam2019]

Open to ideas if anyone's been in a similar situation.

we had a few similar situations, all of which where solved by using an extendable magnetic stick. another option is draining oil, then flushing it out thru the oil drain with fuel or even water (make sure the water is gone before refilling oil) This is purely theoretical, afaik nobody has attempted it. If nothing works you have to take the cylinder off and get it out with the magnetic stick thru the big opening. I can send you a new base gasket for 10 bucks, you can re use the top one (but you likely have not used it yet).

 

[Mortenol]

I did the same mistake. Fixed with a magnetic stick. Very satisfied with the kit. If interested see my videos on the installation here (including dropping the bolt and retaining it)

Big Bore kit install

 

[illgenj]

Thanks everyone! A tiny magnet tool was just the ticket, and I reassembled the bike and tested it out. It's fantastic. the 410cc will make the bike feel much more at home on US highways. A short test today before the rain confirmed it gives a deeper exhaust note and better acceleration. I am running "regular" US fuel without knocking so far, but prepared for higher octane if needed. I'm going to run it very carefully for the break in period. Can't recommend this kit enough.

 

[illgenj]

Just a small update: 3,000 miles on, and not a single issue to report. Feels like It's really breaking in and riding great. I wish I could ride A stock 350 just to compare now!

 

[Shop1901]

Just got my kit here in Colorado. Starting the process. I do have the upgraded Cam and FuelX lite that I previously installed.
I'm going to leave these on.
I live a Mile above sea level, and ride up 10k feet, I need all the boost I can get.
Pics of the progress.

 

[Dool]

Looks very "Surgical" I'm guessing you know what your doing.
Certainly looks like it!
Can't wait for the results, lovely looking bike.
Am I jealous? YES.

 

[Dool]

I rode a Shotgun and a Classic 350 recently and started thinking about a new bike, (you know what it is like, the more you look the more you want!) I have even looked at the Guerrilla as it already has 40BHP and 40 Nm of Torque, unfortunately I do not see much room for improvement there.
As I have previously managed to get 10RWHP (from 22 to 32) extra from a 411 that has just 32cc more displacement and plenty of other mods, my thinking is that with a 346cc (as the J series is) bumped up by 64cc (410 kit) or even 131cc from the bigger kit, I may be able to get a 50% power improvement.
Seems stupid at first but I got 48% before.

Might have to "Bite the Bullet"

 

[sam2019]

Might have to "Bite the Bullet"

Bite the Hunter

I can say this having driven the 500cc Meteor in any and all traffic conditions and now also the Guerilla for 500km:
It is **way** more relaxing to drive the Meteor - it is more fun to pass a truck or bus on the Guerilla - but not by a huge margin.
Both are good in handling but the Guerilla is a bit heavier - objectively 177KG vs 185KG but also subjectively when shuffling it around. The Hunter is almost like a heavy bicycle and I can lift it on the middle stand with 2 or 3 fingers while it hurts my hand to lift the Guerilla if I do not do it 100% the right way (and its hard to do).

The Hunter is happy with 3 liter on 100km while the Guerilla needs 4 for the same distance (there is an eco mode but I have not tried it). The Hunter tank takes 13 liters vs the puny 10 of the Guerilla. so 400 relaxed km vs 200 stressed ones looking for a gas station after 150 or so.

 

[Dool]

The Hunter looks nothing special, I see it is lighter but does not have the visual appeal of a Classic or Bullet IMO.
Guerrilla looks good on paper and from the side is not unappealing but from the front the Radiator looks like it came from a bigger bike.
Bullet looks old as does the Classic which is part of the appeal.

 

[sam2019]

The Hunter looks nothing special,

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I for one like the Hunter looks over the antiquated Bullet. Its a fresh impression and if "helped" to a little more umpf it also is a fun drive. I guess the Bullet would drive much the same, unless the ECUs are very differently mapped (not likely). So that leaves the look. Modern and fresh over an antique from the pre-war period (and I do not mean the current war).

 

[Dool]

Value wise the Hunter has it over the Bullet, cost is A$1000 less. And it has alloy wheels ie tubeless!
For A$700 more I can have a Classic Dark which also has alloys so A$1700 more than a Hunter!.
I could save $8700 by not buying either.
But like a challenge and a change as well.

 

[sam2019]

I could save $8700 by not buying either.

that would be the path to choose if you where 20 or so. Build a house, get a family etc.etc. save for your retirement.
But at your age what are you going to do with all that money?
Don't waste it on charitable organizations, they are all frauds - and as for handing it to your offspring - it will ruin their character!