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477 plus stage 2 cam plus big valve head

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They do have Fancy videos that appear to confirm what they state, but as I see no Dyno Charts from purchasers, except Mine, I believe my charts show a clearer picture.

Fitted with the 8.2-3 my bike "feels like" it did with the Tec Cam, pulls good but no surprises, I might swap it out for the 8.4-3 tonight ,just for fun! 😉

 

Hi Peter and Sam,

Interested to know if a stock Himma is available for a dyno run anywhere with the HT cam could be done?

Could be an option for Himma owners that do not want the power or cost of a 477 kit? If not I could ask for cost fitting and dyno run from shop that does my work and dyno run on my carb Himma if you are interested. Also may help with other cam suppliers comments on power out put increases.

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Doololdphart
Quote from Kiwi59 on 4. September 2021, 9:22

Hi Peter and Sam,

Interested to know if a stock Himma is available for a dyno run anywhere with the HT cam could be done?

I would venture a guess here.

  • There is only so much LIFT you can give to a cam before it becomes dangerous (kick the valve and you can kick the engine)
  • Along similar lines there is only so much additional duration you can give before the two valves interfere with each other.
  • Assuming maximum possible lift and maximum possible duration will increase the power maximally (seems logical, not considering fuel efficiency here) our stage 2 cam does that. (if you are conservative use stage 1 or stage 3 - depending on your preference for more lift or more duration relative to stock)
  • There isnt anything Hitch or TEC could have done "better" or more effective or more power eliciting, the engineering side is quite simple.
  • It does not matter in principal if the engine is a 411 or a 477 - the cam should (more or less) elevate both TO A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE ABOVE BASELINE, which TEC and H. claim to be 20% - but which Dool found out in two seperate Dyno session only to be 10% with H. and 11.5% with TEC respectively.
  • Based on this I do not expect our Stage 2 cam to give more than the 11.5% the TEC can give - as it is restricted by the same design limitations any cam in this engine would be.
  • The reason H is worse than TEC is clear: they do not have the same amount of freedom because they only CHANGED an already exisitng design whereas TEC (and we) could start fresh and use the maximum possible.
  • Based on the aforementioned facts I assume both TEC and Hitch where VERY liberal when tweaking their Dyno charts (not to use the word fraud here).
  • The question remaining is: will people rather respond to propaganda or will they respond to honest reporting? In the light of their behavior re: broken frame heads I am not sure which one it will be. But we can rest in the certainty to occupy the moral high ground <LOL>.

So a seperate dyno for our cam with a stock Hima while possible and maybe even desirable for pure "convincing the masses" reasons - it seems uneccesary if you come to think about it.

 

Quote from sam2019 on 4. September 2021, 13:30
  • The question remaining is: will people rather respond to propaganda or will they respond to honest reporting?

 

Propaganda every time. The human animal may be many things, but it isn't rational.

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sam2019Dool
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqZS7_4U_Qp-qdBoWtZVDww/videos
Quote from sam2019 on 4. September 2021, 4:36

this is what the packages look like: on the label the "kind" is defined:

 

Hope This Stage 2 Cam is ready for sale ? Hope This Cam works With H  Performance valves and Smoothed out Head Porting ? ( Or Its Better to go in for Bigger Valves ?) Can you Mail me or whats app me the Price for Stage2 cam & Biigger valves

Quote from Reddy on 5. September 2021, 13:42

Hope This Stage 2 Cam is ready for sale ? Hope This Cam works With H  Performance valves and Smoothed out Head Porting ? ( Or Its Better to go in for Bigger Valves ?) Can you Mail me or whats app me the Price for Stage2 cam & Biigger valves

well, our valves ARE bigger than the H. valves and we have no problem with stage 2.
No kicking of the valves and piston.

The stage 2 is 149 euro - 13.000 INR for you

The bigger valves I would have to get from the head guy as I do not sell valves normally but only ready made heads - but as you are in India I can get you the valves next time I get to him and you can find your own "head guy" to make it into a 477 head. No too hard to do, just a lot of fiddely work.

My guess is 2-3000 INR or thereabouts for the valves. PM me if you are interested.

 

FINALLY  Which is the "Best" COMBO ( VALVES + CAMS ) CAN OFFER EXCELLENT   LOW & MIDRANGE TORQUE  ?

Quote from Reddy on 14. September 2021, 14:43

FINALLY  Which is the "Best" COMBO ( VALVES + CAMS ) CAN OFFER EXCELLENT   LOW & MIDRANGE TORQUE  ?

the definite answer only Dool can give with a Dyno chart. however I am taking our 2. stage cam out of the bike with the big valves as I can not perceive any advantage (there may still be one, too small to feel seat of the pants). So my opinion is the bigger head gives you the brunt of torque on top of what the 477 already provides. The cam then does not change that much. However on a stock head the cam likely would make a much bigger difference and Dool already stated that somewhere else on this forum.

So long story short - before we have conclusive dynos this seems the picture:

a) the cheaper solution is 477 and stage 2 cam

b) the more expensive solution but with even more power is 477 and bigger head

c) no perceivable difference over b) is 477 and cam and head.

 

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Dool

I recon 😉  that the best Bang for bucks not the way to look at it. Like there is no Cheap way out of this.

411 is too small and doesn't  breath well IMO, so it needs Many things, another way of looking at it is that it has its limitation and was designed for,,, blah blah. 🙄

One quick way would be to throw in a Hot Cam and magically gain horse power torque and the other stuff that Butt Dynos register. This may make it Breath better but will not make it bigger, being that it is Naturally Aspirated there is no quick Fix. ❗

Best way is to increase the size of the Engine, this is where my best results have been, But you must give it more Fuel (the standard EFI Himma needs more Fuel ! ) so now you are up for, Bigger engine, More fuel, you are going to go for a free flowing Exhaust or you not warm blooded and you will want to improve the Air Filter or you havent read the latest. Iridium plugs etc.

But  you need the Free flow exhaust and airbox mods less than Piston size, the airbox is actually very good and the Exhaust doesent need big bucks spent on it because the power gains shown for just exhaust mods are Small, mostly you get noise variations!

So you may as well Improve the Head while you have the chance and help it Breath better, do a good job and the Cam becomes a thinner layer of icing But on a Bigger Cake.

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