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Quote from Dool on 28. July 2022, 18:14

Just fixing the Idle makes it worthwhile, did you ever suffer from Stalling with your Bike?

Like once every thousand kilometers in an Bad Situation (in intersections e. G. ) And about every third cold Start... But that was expexted from a point on

And now it also revs the 6500 (Autobahn ist possible now, tested on A8) 🙂

 

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Dool
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Quote from Adrian on 12. July 2022, 23:01

This is:

  • 2021 Himalaya EURO V / BS6

@Adrian   I just realized you also have a BS6 - wasn't paying attention to this thread. Shame you do not have a 477!! Then my problem would be solved. But maybe you have enough background knowledge to help me with my 477.

I have Installed FuelX pro and the PT. I also have the HT-b cam, an open air filter and a somewhat open exhaust (PowerAge type).

The bike runs but idle is wobbely around 1100 and 1300 going up and down. Shifting with the FuelX switch does not seem to change anything - I tried all 10 positions. If i accelerate sudden - the bike stalls.

I would need a base map for elevations up to say 3000m and then one that is VERY lean (about 25% lean from standard) for as high as 4500-5000m.

I have looked at the R-tune software but it will take time to understand it - and in any case I am basically clueless as to what needs to be changed for an additional 60cc displacement and the cam etc.

so any kind of assistance would be appreciated. if you have any map file that does point into this direction, even if not perfect, would be a big help. you can post it here or send me via email g.kossatz-at-gmx.de.

 

Quote from sam2019 on 1. August 2022, 11:13
Quote from Adrian on 12. July 2022, 23:01

This is:

  • 2021 Himalaya EURO V / BS6

@Adrian   I just realized you also have a BS6 - wasn't paying attention to this thread. Shame you do not have a 477!! Then my problem would be solved. But maybe you have enough background knowledge to help me with my 477.

I have Installed FuelX pro and the PT. I also have the HT-b cam, an open air filter and a somewhat open exhaust (PowerAge type).

The bike runs but idle is wobbely around 1100 and 1300 going up and down. Shifting with the FuelX switch does not seem to change anything - I tried all 10 positions. If i accelerate sudden - the bike stalls.

I would need a base map for elevations up to say 3000m and then one that is VERY lean (about 25% lean from standard) for as high as 4500-5000m.

I have looked at the R-tune software but it will take time to understand it - and in any case I am basically clueless as to what needs to be changed for an additional 60cc displacement and the cam etc.

so any kind of assistance would be appreciated. if you have any map file that does point into this direction, even if not perfect, would be a big help. you can post it here or send me via email g.kossatz-at-gmx.de.

 

Sell him a 477 then he will have come up with a Map 😆

Sorry, I dont have the map Nor the Camshaft.

I gave the whole basic map (for HT cam likely Map 1, I used Map 2) 2 percent more fuel (Mark all of the fuel map, right click, change by 2) and Set it to Zero or even more later on where neccesary. For more displacement add like 16 or ask dool what he chooses.

And you could mark the areas (Fuel) in three throttle areas  like from10..30\35...65\... for each 1000 rpm. You want to feed the engine like 5 to 6 points more in the range where your cam produces the most Torque.

So fuel goes up steadily up to... X Rev and then drops in the same way, you can substract fuel to build a rev limiter

At the second Axis, More fuel for more throttle but to add 0 could be your very lean maps bottom Line...

 

Torque, I mean Ignition depends on fuel quality and AFR, I have 88 to 91 MON (Lab-tested by Raceteams on YouTube ^^) with ETBE MTBE and other Detonation surpressing fuel parts in a range of 10 to 15 percent in my pump fuel and can still add booster, all I am doing is using that to gain torque by adding 4-5 degrees offset. And I have the original 9,5:1 compression ratio...

Theory behind it says fatter AFR burns slower and leaner burns faster.

Higher compression gives more pinging, as higher Temperatures do.

So I would recommend to get a fuel map first (ignition to all zero via set to) and when the fuel is fine tuned (by each and every column and line or whatever) to add ignition with not the best fuel available in the same way as fuel, but likely in a range of 2 to 6. Alwas start from the bottom (less throttle) to the top (more throttle) until pinging occurs, Then Switch to the Map of zeros imediately and reprogramm the powertronic to 1 degree less... Repeat often, for what i am filling up my ignition map is surely not maxed out.

So I gain torque by adding Ignition, but if your compression\fuel available ratio is to high, substracting is an option

Overall you do all of this to have the Maximum burning pressure between 20 and 25 degrees crankshaft after top dead Center or so because that means Torque. This can be achieved by adding Ignition (more early), slower burning high quality fuel, more fuel,higher compression (equals better efficiency) and Has to avoid pinging, Detonation and everything in between.

I personally prefer a safe ignition field with spare octane points and like to add more fuel because that combined keeps the engine colder and gives Torque. The CC burns free at constant load and 15.something AFR anyway. And I Always keep an option if the fuel quality drops (so if both maps are in use I carry the Adapter for "Petrol Type of Fuel" without octane Rating under my Seat) and I am not sure if this trick works with higher compression

 

PS: Fuel fixes the Idle, simply fuel is all it needs

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sam2019Dool
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Yeah, we live in different worlds LOL.

In India you never know what you get in terms of fuel. 95 RON is the highest they sell (except in VERY few places in the biggest cities) and even that can and will be diluted with Kerosene and/or water. Fuel is just one of the commodities where making an extra buck is easy without getting caught - especially as nobody gives a shit. The fuel pumps have density meters which are showing red for "out of range" - and if you ask they tell you "broken, dont care".

So long story short I will in all likelihood use the carby bike as figuring out this nightmare of ECU mapping isnt my cup or tea, at least not at the moment. I am running out of time as the season in Ladakh comes to a close in a month and I dont want to go back on roads with black ice on them (or end up in a snowstorm like 2018).

Yeah, RE fucked us all good with that BS6 shit. And neither Hitchcocks nor Racedynamics is going to do anything about it for the foreseeable future.

I will come back to figuring that shit out when back because ultimately I wont sell any 477 sets to anyone with a BS6 Hima or the Scram which is also BS6 without a working map. But not now it seems.

and about the "sell a 477 to Adrian" - contact me for a special offer if you are interested (PM or email).

 

Quote from Adrian on 1. August 2022, 16:24

PS: Fuel fixes the Idle, simply fuel is all it needs

No it doesnt - not the fuelx I have. all 10 positions do shit to change the pumping idle. thats with the PT installed.

Without the PT the idle is good but there is no power, at least not in comparison to what I know from the carby.

FuelX works on the O2 sensor , so "closed loop" (  I think! ), is Idle closed loop? 🙄

Stuffed if I know how all this works but the PT has the ability to add and subtract fuel ( plus advance or retard timing ) or why would it be on the market ❓

 

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Adrian

Thanks a lot for the offer with the cheap cylinder, it is an honor for me that you see me qualified to find out, but I do Not distance cylinder rings and stuff by myself and german mechanics are a bit more expensive than indian ones...

Plus I fueld up Premium, Had different booster with me, ran without the PT for the rest of the Tour (nearly Impossible to pull the 16T with Panniers Then) and reprogrammed the thing regularly from April (how do do a Basic fuelmaps) over May (fine Tuning) to June (ignition in steps of 1 degree) to July (whoops it got hot and got pinging - revert). The result is not to Bad, but the effort was HUGE, maybe you give it a try with a 3x3 Matrix like for a carb (my old carbs only Had Idle, needle and Jet, so three Rev-ranges over three throttle Positions) and mark All the cells in that area to set them to the same value?

I believe the FuelX cheats in closed loop (fuel only) while the PT influences the transient parts or Open loop and gets inactive if the revs are constant for a few seconds. Butwwith fuel and ignition

So nothing can retard the timing of the ignition in closed loop? That would explain BS6-problems

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Quote from Adrian on 1. August 2022, 18:48

I do Not distance cylinder rings and stuff by myself and german mechanics are a bit more expensive than indian ones...

I dont understand what you are trying to say. You would get a cylinder/piston/gaskets set ready to swap with the stock one. We have a how-to video and its not any harder than changing a cam (actually fiddeling with the timing chain is the worst part).

If I do such stuff with my 1 year old engine I better not fail or it will need a while until I could Ride again because I never Opend a 4 Stroke engine and if I have to Open one Then I search for where the Honda Monkey produces silver Sand and use my himalayan as the "good bike" while the 125ccm gets stripped for Training. But for reason my tasks end at unopend engines (as an engineer I am more or less electrician with a good electronically applicable Software knowledge and No Wish to be a real mechanic by myself)

So thats the reason why the Enfield is unopend end the Honda spits tiny Aluminium balls in its engine

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